Holden's nearest thing to a Manta?

by **001 Neville** » 27 Aug 2010, 23:41

A Torana UC Hatch?

Some resemblance to shape in profile

but not as attractive from the front or back end, in my opinion.

.... but look at the price :shock:

even with 200,000kms!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Holden/UC/auction-312113906.htm

by **014 Phil** » 27 Aug 2010, 23:46

Can't see price anywhere..........?? But, whatever it is, if it was the earlier LX model, it would be heaps more. :shock:

by **020 Brad** » 27 Aug 2010, 23:59

Agreed. Also had lines of the Ascona B in there too, and the front end is very similar.

There was also a UD (above is UC) Torana concept that was heading in an even more Opel direction.

Opel Ascona C anyone?!?

Even the wheels are classic Opel.

Another interesting thing I found in one of the pictures is that Holden called the concept "VA"

And we all know what came after VA..

But staying on topic, how about the Holden Torana GTR-X concept? (and also the UD/VA coupe concept shown first)

Not I don't know about you guys, but I can definitely see some Bitter CD lines in there

by **020 Brad** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:03

Speaking about "close to Manta", how about this concept Picture?

It has the classic "droop snoot" look coming through, but granted I can also see some American lines in there, Vega perhaps, I'm sure there was a Chev that had a nose like that too?

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:07

Ah, just saw the price - in that famous line from the movie 'The Castle' - 'Tell him he's dreaming.......'

The Opel look wheels were the hubcaps used on the LX SS hatchback.

The Bitter does look like it took some inspiration from the Torana GTR-X. If ever there was a Holden that SHOULD have been built, that was it! :cry:

Without doubt there would be one of those sitting in my garage right now if it had made it into production. :oops:

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:08

020 Brad wrote:Speaking about "close to Manta", how about this concept Picture?

It has the classic "droop snoot" look coming through, but granted I can also see some American lines in there, Vega perhaps, I'm sure there was a Chev that had a nose like that too?

Looks very much like a Chev Monza nose. Not particularly pretty.

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:15

This is the Buick version of the Chev Monza

by **001 Neville** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:15

014 Phil wrote:
The Bitter does look like it took some inspiration from the Torana GTR-X.

I see what you're saying, but was it the other way round???? :wink:

Do you know when was the GTR Torana concept car produced?

Erich Bitter took the Bitter designs from Opel sketches, based on running gear of the existing '68 Opel Diplomat. I'll try to find my Bitter book for more dates and details.

by **020 Brad** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:22

Oh yeah, I thought that as I typed it, but yeah the designs would certainly have originated from Opel. Did Holden have their own designers?

I don't mean to say that in a bad way, obviously they restyled vehicles, but it almost appears as though they may have just been using Opel designers during this period?

And to answer your question, the GTR-X concept would have been late 70's. Opels design had already moved on to more modern, possibly not as aesthetically pleasing as the earlier Opel designs.. possibly? :wink:

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:24

001 Neville wrote:
014 Phil wrote:
The Bitter does look like it took some inspiration from the Torana GTR-X.

I see what you're saying, but was it the other way round????

Do you know when was the GTR Torana concept car produced?

Erich Bitter took the Bitter designs from Opel sketches, based on running gear of the existing '68 Opel Diplomat. I'll try to find my Bitter book for more dates and details.

I clearly remember the car from the Sydney motorshow in 1971. Fell in love with it then, & been in love ever since...... :oops:

It was basically unveilled as production-ready. Damn bean-counters pulled the plug.

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:29

020 Brad wrote:Oh yeah, I thought that as I typed it, but yeah the designs would certainly have originated from Opel. Did Holden have their own designers? I don't mean to say that in a bad way, obviously they restyled vehicles, but it almost appears as though they may have just been using Opel designers during this period?

And to answer your question, the GTR-X concept would have been late 70's. Opels design had already moved on to more modern, possibly not as aesthetically pleasing as the earlier Opel designs.. possibly?

Holden has always had it's own design studio, but like all GM divisions world-wide, designs had to be signed off in Detroit. There was clearly a sharing of ideas & staff, and commonality of design features can be seen in GM products across the world.

by **020 Brad** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:32

Oh you are right about the year, I had read that it was based on a UC, but that can't be right if it was a 1970 concept.

And I probably shouldn't even BE in this conversation, considering you were at the show that the concept was released at! :oops:

I wasn't even born until the VK :oops:

by **001 Neville** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:33

Under the new, inspired leadership of American Bob Lutz, Opel's stylists wanted to demonstrate their talents at the 1969 Frankfurt Show with a dream car they could build on the chassis of the recently introduced Diplomat. They used their top-of-the-range model because it had advanced suspension - independent front and De Dion rear - and it could take Chevrolet's V8 powerplant. The coupe, project name Astra, but called the Styling CD, was a stunning, refreshing offering greeted with great enthusiasm. Opel's styling team was headed by Chuck Jordan.

The sensational response to the car led Opel's management to consider making a sporting coupe. They had already developed a shortened Diplomat chassis for the Styling CD, but decided that the cost of producing such a car would be too high. It would have had to have been produced in sufficient numbers to justify the tooling cost, yet remain exclusive enough to camouflage what was sure to be an inflated price. The car would also have to live with an Opel badge.

In 1970 the Italian styling company, Frua, designed and built their own updated, more practical version of the Styling CD for the 1970 Frankfurt show. Frua's design retained the monocoque shape and the character of Chuck Jordan's car, but was fitted with conventional doors. The Frua CD was a handsome, masculine coupe, but like his predecessor, did not make it to production.

In 1971 Dave Holls replaced Chuck Jordan as Opel's styling chief and he, like many other top Opel executives, regularly used the car. Erich Bitter had seen the car many times and was smitten by the concept of its stunning styling and reliable, well engineered running gear.

http://www.bittercars.com/bitter/bitter.nsf/pages/opel

Frua CD

I prefer the final Bitter CD design over these two, I must say!

by **014 Phil** » 28 Aug 2010, 00:34

020 Brad wrote:Oh you are right about the year, I had read that it was based on a UC, but that can't be right if it was a 1970 concept.

And I probably shouldn't even BE in this conversation, considering you were at the show that the concept was released at! I wasn't even born until the VK