Holden V8 vs Opel 3 liter

[118 Ben N]

Is the 5L v8 a real powerfull engine?
And what version would be the most one?

I never had the change to drive one during my stay in Australia,but for example the VK V8,s are that any good engines?

I am thinking of buying one and put in my Monza,but its not that i am a V8 fan but i want more power.

Greetz Ben

[118 Ben N]

I ment have anybody drove a 5 liter V8 and compared it with a 3 liter Opel engine?

The version in the VK of the V8 is that any good?
Or would a V8 EFI be a better option?

I mean i can buy C30SE (3.0 24V) engines i can buy a CIH 3.6 12V engine and put that in my Monza but those things dont come really cheap and a V8 in Australia is cheap and with the shipping it would cost a fair bit more that a European C30SE or C36NE engine conversion but you have a V8.(i am not a V8 fan but for the power....).

So is the original Holden 5.0 V8 really a fast/powerfull engine in a Holden Commodore,i dont mean the LS series just the Holden 5.0L not the US things...

[072 Dinesh]

If you are going for a v8 , they are really torquey but not high on horsepower because of the pushrod head design. Also i would suggest VN (1988 onwards) V8 engines because they are electronic injected 8s, reliable also very tuneable. Though if you must know that is was done in the 80s by Peter Brock

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Artic ... leID=50263

[118 Ben N]

Yeah i saw that Brock Monza a few times in th last jears while surfing on the inet,its missing a mirror (all Monza,s had 2 mirrors) it has a very cheap interiour (A GSE interiour would of lookt heaps better) and those rims are not really my taste.

I figgert out that a Holden VB is exact the same a Opel Monza under the bonnet (exept that the suspension domes from a Monza are a bit under a diffent angle so that a Monza keeps going forward and a Commodore needs more steering corrections on a straight road) and the steering sytem from a Commodore is diffent,we have a huge steering system in the Monza and the Holdens have a small axel that goes to the K-frame.

Any way i am going on a holiday in Australia en mabey buy an 5.0 V8 and send it home with all i need like tranny clutch extractors and all other things.
The cost wont be cheaper that a 3.0 24V or a 3.6 CIH but its unique,to have a V8 in a Monza that fits easy and has a lot of hp.

[028 Sean]

Why is the C30SE conversion so expensive for you Ben?

[118 Ben N]

A 24V conversion isnt expensive at all,there are quit a few C30SE engines here for sale if you look a bit for fair prices (400/600€ you have an engine and everything you need),but there are so many 24V conversions that its not unique anymore,and the 24V engine may have quit a bit power,but for a bit more money i could have a V8 with more Kw,s and more torque and i have an engine that that nobody else has.
Fuel consumption of the V8 isnt a real problem i drive on LPG,a 24V engine would have better fuel econemy,my brothers one uses around 10L/100kays so thats quit nice for a 1400kg heavy car with 200+ hp.

I am going to Australia in januari for a holiday and i might buy me a VN commodore than and after i am done with driving around i might srew the engine/trannie out and send them to Europe,but thats just an idea.

But did anybody drove a Monza 30E or Senator B 24V and could compare it with a Holden V8???

In the 2 times i visited Australia i bough Fords both with a 4.1L straight 6 engine and they had aboslutely no power at all a Fairlane Z? and a Falcon,both had the same powerless fuel consuming 4,1L carby engine ,compared to those Fords my Monza 3 liter was way faster and better fuel econemy.

[028 Sean]

But did anybody drove a Monza 30E or Senator B 24V and could compare it with a Holden V8???

Yes there is....his name is 007 Matt and he is a forum member. Matt used to live here in the UK and had a Omega 3000 24v but Matt then moved to Oz a couple of years ago and now drives a V8 Commodore. Sadly he doesn't come on here that often at the moment but if you pm him for his opinion on driving these cars, I'm sure he'll give you an answer Ben!

HTH!

[020 Brad]

We have loads of V8's here and they are a VERY different experience to the 24 valve engine.

I've never drive a 12valver but from what I hear they have more torque lower down, where as the 24v comes in higher up the rev range.

I guess if you think of a 5 litre 12 valve engine you would have something similar to what the V8's are like. I know that sounds stupid but I'm just trying to show you that they are a very torquey motor that delivers a nice big hit right from idle pretty much. Alot of people also prefer the sound of a V8 and also, love telling people they have a V8 because they are highly over rated engines.

You'd probably want to keep it auto, but one of the older gen 5L engines would give you a nice wad of torque to just be able to jump in your car, put your foot down and go. The opposite of the 24v, which takes a while to wind up.

If you want to here the sound jump on youtube, there will be endless videos of brainless australians doing burnouts in there VK commodores (no offence intended to those australians with brains ).

Also, as I understand it there are a WHOLE lot of different variations on the V8, both those made in Australia and the yank models with which they were based. Changes in induction, size, layout, firing order, the lot. So do a bit of research before you get stuck into one and also consider just getting a Chev 5.7L from a later model Commy or a yank machine, as these engines make some really great power, the limit is practically endless.

[021 Chad]

We have a 5.7L V8 Holden in the family and I can see the attraction. As Brad says things happen from idle and you can't help being a bit naughty. In the wet weather I get a bit silly, 'U'turns when you've gone down the wrong street are conducted by turning the wheel a little and punching the gas to half throttle etc etc.

Still preffer the DOHC 6CYL sound, but in EU the V8 would be more unique.

[020 Brad]

Yeah forgot to mention I'm not really a fan of common stuff so for that reason it would be quite cool to see something different in your car if 24v are very common.

People in NZ that are doing V8 conversions often do use the old push rod technology but many of them are recommended other options.

One that many people in NZ are doing at the moment is the Toyota (Lexus) 1UZ-FE engine which is a quad cam 4 litre V8 and makes great torque and power, probably a lot more than a 5 litre Commodore V8 like you are talking about.

Heres a link to a guy who has just put one into his Toyota Cressida and it looks brilliant.
http://www.oldschool.co.nz/phpbb/viewto ... 7d53b2c740

Power figures are quote at 191 kW (256 hp) and torque of 353 Nm (260 ftlb). Thats for the base engine, there are larger motors and also VVTi ones available that make quite a bit more power. People also get fantastic results from using aftermarket management on them, as the base tune is very conservative.

This motor can also be purchased with box easily for around NZ$1000 which is a great price. Even cheaper if you source through Japan, plus they are still in production so are plentiful along with parts and aftermarket support, even in your country I would think.

Just a thought anyway.



edit: lol, power figures from the 5L Holden motor are just pathetic. If you are going to go there, please go to a later model Chev engine.

Holden Black 5.0L (later 4.9L) V8

Capacity: 5.0L (4.9L after June 1985)
Induction: Carburetor
Valvetrain: Overhead valves, 2 valves / cylinder
Bore x Stroke (mm): 101.6 x 76.7
Compression Ratio: 8.8
Maximum Power: 117kW
Maximum Torque: 319Nm @ 2400rpm

[021 Chad]

These guys are the kings of LEXUS V8 conversions in NZ:

http://www.pmw.co.nz/ProductsList.aspx?CategoryID=53&selection=12

They have a range of off the shelf adaptors and headers that they supply to make putting these engines into anything rather easy.

The LEXUS V8 is much lighter than the GM motor so it won't destroy the monza's handling either.

[020 Brad]

Oh yes, its an all alloy engine so is very light compared to other similarly sized engines.

[028 Sean]

edit: lol, power figures from the 5L Holden motor are just pathetic. If you are going to go there, please go to a later model Chev engine.

Holden Black 5.0L (later 4.9L) V8

Capacity: 5.0L (4.9L after June 1985)
Induction: Carburetor
Valvetrain: Overhead valves, 2 valves / cylinder
Bore x Stroke (mm): 101.6 x 76.7
Compression Ratio: 8.8
Maximum Power: 117kW
Maximum Torque: 319Nm @ 2400rpm

Torque is good with 235.42Lbs/ft available at just 2400rpm but maximum power of 117kW is only 156.89bhp which is alot less than the Monza's original 180bhp 3.0E straight six lump!

[118 Ben N]

The 30E engine with 180HP on paper doesnt have a 180HP,because it technical not possible because the 20E engine (Manta/Rekord and more) had 110HP and it was technical the same as the 30E only with 2 cylinders less.

So 110HP for a 4 banger means:27,5HP per cylinder thats means 6 cylinders times 27,5HP=165 but the 30E has less powerlosses in the:waterpump/oilpump/alternator and more so the 30E can have a maximum power of 168/170HP.

The later 3 liter 12V CIH engine the C30NE from the Omega 3000/Senator B with the gold colort valvecover has 130KW/177HP and that are true HP,s because it has bigger valves and a diffent camshaft.
Everybody that i know that put a C30NE from a Senator B into a Monza says that it feels like it had 20HP more.
I bought only the cylinder head of a C30NE and took 0,4mm off it and srewt it on my Monza,s 30E block,the result was fantastic:
The old 30E motor dint do much after 5000rpm this one really start going at 3500 all the way to 6000rpm.

But even now its not spectacular,and i think a Toyota V8 is a great engine but....Its not GM and it would even cost a lot more here that importing a VN 165KW 5.0 V8.
Thats why if i would buy a V8 i think it would be a Holden VN Commodore V8 complete with transmission and all the rest,i think that would be a great choise:cheap (compared to a Toyota) easy build (Holden is mostly light years behind if it come to techique compared to Japan or Germany) and build to last.
I think with 165KW and a lot of torque driving would be more fun,fuel consumption isnt a problem because i drive LPG.
With petrol prices here at the moment of:
1,4€ a liter of 95 octane = 2,4AUS $ and 2.95NZ $ a V8 on petrol would not be a option as daily car.

[072 Dinesh]

Good on ya mate , i would keep it within GM , plus pushrod V8s sound way different than OHC v8s . Also they are easier to maintain than multivalve engines. Also it would be like moving over to the dark side.